God Bless.

Beca

Instead of responding here to your comments I would instead point you to my other teachings on this site. They cover almost every point you bring up. If after having studied them with a heart for truth…let me know if you have any questions as I would love to talk to you.

One thing you said that i am not sure i cover concerns sacrifices…the Torah actually forbids anyone from performing sacrifices anyplace but at His temple (Deuteronomy 12)…but while the Temple existed it would have been okay as God Himself commanded it. Paul actually performs a animal sacrifice AFTER Jesus went to the cross…did you know this? Check it out in Acts 21. Also, consider that according to Ezekiel, you and I will witness animal sacrifices in the future…true or untrue?

Let me know what you think…Tim

My point in writing this is that Jesus upheld the Law of Moses both in word and deed. As His Disciples…we should do the same. Perhaps you confuse commandments of men with Commandments of God. The Bible teaches from one end to the other faith in Messiah and obedience to God’s Commandments.

Jesus said that all of God’s Commandments hang on these two…the only way you know how to love God is by the instructions He gave us in Torah…the same goes for loving people. John tells us in 1 John that if we say we know God, but don’t keep His Commandments as given thru Moses…we are a liar. (1 John 2:4) Also, Jesus said “if you love Me, keep My Commandments”. His Commandments and the Commandments of His Father are always the same. They are as one right?

I think you would agree that if we say we love God but worship Idols for instance…our words are as nothing. The same goes for the other Commandments.

Let me know what you think…

In Messiah, Tim

When Jesus was asked the question (by a lawyer) in Matthew 22:37-40, he was being asked to weigh in the excessive legalism that ruled society. His response that there are really only two things we must keep in mind was a challenge to the religious orthodoxy of his time.

As Christianity became “establish,” it moved further away from Christ’s advice that one had to look at the big picture and make decisions within that framework and more toward a rules-bound orthodoxy. The Protestant Reformation can be seen, in part, as a reimposition of the Jesus Way vs. Orthodoxy.

Today, we face the question throughout religious life. Many religious leaders have, to put it in modern vernacular, “control issues.” They want to tell everyone–not just their flock, but all mankind–what to do. The attempt to enforce orthodoxy exists in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Some call it fundametalism.

Jesus tells us life is, at once, much more simple, yet not that simple. We do not have to remember 500 rules that circumscribe every aspect of our behavior and therefore tell us exactly what to do at all times. But we do have to remember two big rules, and living under them require us to make choices every day.

Praise the Lord! Thanks for the encouragment.

Let me say that Chuck Missler is right on many things…I have been blessed by some of his teachings. Let me also say that no matter who you are listening to (including me) you need to always be searching the Scriptures. It will only become more important in the days ahead. There are no perfect teachers…except for our Master! I had hoped Mr. Missler would correct some of his statments concerning the Sabbath (I sent him a copy of my refutation) but he has never responded to me.

Now to your question…

I am one of several leaders in a small congregation called “The Carpenter’s Shop that meets on the Sabbath each week. We began as a Sunday church but moved to the Sabbath a few years back as we began to honor His Appointed Times. One reason was for practical reasons…if we abstain from work on the Sabbath…we don’t all have time to also attend a service on Sunday and attend to common house chores. Also, however Levitucus 23:3 does tell us that we are to have a “holy convocation” on the Sabbath…thus over time it works out well for us to meet together on the Sabbath.

I would tell you to be cautious about attending a Synagogue that rejects Yeshua as Messiah. I would encourage you to find a group of like minded Believer’s who both love Torah and Messiah. Sometimes that is hard I am sure.

If it helps for the time being…you can listen to “The Carpenter’s Shop’s weekly teachings on the internet at http://www.thewordisgrace.com as you search for a assembly. Right now Jim Denman is teaching thru the book of John…it’s been really good. Let me know if I can be of any more help.

God Bless, Tim

dear tim,

i just want to say thank you for posting such a good article like this. i really enjoyed reading your articles.

i’ve been studying the bible with chuck missler (’s material) for long time. i thought he is right all the time. but this time i am not satisfied with his teaching on sabbath.

just one question or two: do you recommend attending synagogues on sat to learn torah? do you attend one?

i’ve never thought of myself attending synagogues in my whole life. what is your opinion on the verse above?

thanks for sharing,

God bless you

I am currently traveling on vacation…don’t have a lot of time. Will share my uneducated opinion. I believe that Scripture teaches one law for all…yet not all laws apply to you and me…for instance I am not a Levite Priest…nor a leper…nor a woman. Each of us should honor and obey those commandments which apply….for example…the laws pertaining to the temple can’t be followed as there is no temple as of today….that does not mean they have been done away with.

Scripture says “One law shall be for the native born and for the stranger who dwells among you” (Exodus 12:49) Please check out Jeremiah 12:14-17. I think you will find it interesting. I believe it quite plainly states all the nations should live as Israel…keeping God’s Commandments.

I believe Acts 15 to be a beginning point for those turning to Messiah…then they are to learn Torah just like any follower of the God of Abraham. The laws mentioned by James do not even prohibit murder…it can’t be an all encompassing list.

Main point….Paul says that “if you are Christ’s then you ARE Abrahams’s seed, and heirs according to the promise”. (Gal 3:29). That sums up my position…I don’t even know my bloodline….who really does? I believe that the blood of Messiah is what matters and that thru HIS blood we all are grafted in…including even the most Jewish of the Jews according to Paul (Romans 9:6-11)….I don’t think that God gave two sets of Commandments….

May the Holy One bless you in your studies….feel free to write anytime….sorry so short for the moment…

Tim C. Terry

Thanks for stopping in…

God is still on the throne…and His Torah has not been done away with (Matthew 5) and I praise the Lord for hearing from the leader of a home that searches the Scriptures for the truth and is bringing up his sons to do the same. Paul would be honored by your “Berean” type search for Truth.

First of all…you ask some big questions…there is no way I have the time here and now to answer them all…(even if I had all the answers)but fortunately you also understand a big part of what it will take to answer your questions….CONTEXT…you stated correctly that when we don’t use proper context we misunderstand what is being said by Paul…James…Jesus….whoever. That said…I will try to keep you on the right track and steer you to some good resources. Please recognize again that I don’t have all the answers…but I have come to understand that Paul does not teach disobedience to God’s Commandments…while at the same time still wrestling with some of his words. The lens thru which we view Paul is not exactly 20/20….we are just too far removed. It takes work to view a clear picture.

A MUST REMEMBER AS YOU READ PAUL>>>Paul was a bondservant of Yeshua….he would never contradict his Master…(he tells us himself to “imitate me AS I imitate Messiah”). with that in mind you can begin to unravel many of your questions. Would Paul teach against Torah??? How could he…he would be a false prophet…he would be considered to be least in the Kingdom according to the words of his Master in Matthew 5. So…EVERYTIME you think he is contradicting Jesus…you should dig some more…as you are doing now. But if you do not immediately come to a good answer…just keep remembering that Paul himself says that he believes ALL things written in the Torah and the prophets. (Acts 24:14) Those are very plain spoken words of Paul…take them to heart. Paul DID what he said he believed. Paul upheld Torah time and time again in Scripture…with his words and with his life. You mention James…James says to be doers of the Word…not hearers only..(The New Testament had not yet been written …thus he speaks of Torah obedience) 1 John is all about keeping Torah as he describes what it means to love God and people…as he describes the definition of sin…(Torahlessness 1John 3:4) We can believe all the words of these bondservants as they wrote what the Spirit would have them write. Our problem is we are 2000 years removed and must dig deep at times into the culture…and idioms…and the issues of their day to bring out the proper context. I won’t be able to do that in this response…obviously. I will make some comments and make a suggestion for good resource material that you and your sons might consider reading. Again…I wish I had all the clear cut answers…I don’t. According to Peter…I am not alone…

Peter warned us that Paul spoke very difficult things to understand…and that many would unknowingly twist his words as they do the rest of Scripture at times…. (2 Peter 3:16-17) He makes an important point.. and goes on to say we should “beware”. Beware of what?? “being led away with the error of the wicked”. We know that people even in Paul’s day were misunderstanding him…that there were rumors concerning his teaching disobedience to Torah…(Acts 21) It would seem that nothing has changed. Perhaps Peter knows that our flesh would find it pleasing to think that we no longer have to obey Torah…that Paul somehow gives us permission to live as we see fit…each according to his own heart. It should give us great pause whenever we begin to think that we have found justification in the Word to disobey the Word. Justification in the Word of God to ignore the Word of God! It can’t be! Right?

(Please note again…I wrestle with many of the same things you bring up…this is not kids stuff…but I continue to learn that each time we think we find a contradiction in Scripture…it is OUR understanding that is flawed…)

Concerning circumcision….First of all notice he says that keeping the commandments is what matters in this very same verse you question…so what is this circumicision Paul often talks about? …check me out…I believe Paul may be talking about a conversion ritual to Judaism…a proselyte program to “become Jewish” as according to the Jewish leaders of the day. I believe this was a big issue at the time…but it is complicated as Scripture does not plainly state the issues being addressed in some of Paul’s writings. Check out Ephesians 2 verse 11 for a hint. Notice the terms circumicision and uncircumcision can refer to a “people” not just a physical state. Another place where Paul seems to speak against being physically circumcised is in Galatians chapter 5…notice however to me the context seems to be justification…not obedience…(You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be JUSTIFIED by law) I believe Paul understood that the covenant given to Abraham and his seed remains intact…Ephesians 2…brought near to the covenants by the blood of Messiah. Paul reminds us in Galatians 3:29 that if we are in Christ…we are Abraham’s seed. But there is much more to the issue of “circumicision” than just the physical act at play in Paul’s time perhaps. Tim Hegg http://www.TorahResource.com has a great book called “The Letter Writer” along with other teachings and resources including a series on Galatians. I would encourage you to check out his teachings as he can bring much understanding to the issues you raise….I plant seeds….Tim Hegg does a lot of the hard weeding!!

Are there two sets of commandments? Not according to Exodus 12:49. “One law shall be for the native born and for the stranger who dwells among you”

Concerning Idols….I guess I don’t really hear Paul being at odds with James or Jesus….he makes the case that if you know it has been offered to idols….do not partake. He does however make the point that sense we know idols are nothing we don’t have to constantly ask if anything or anyone involved in the food preperation was somehow associated with idol worship. In fact…doe he not agree with Yeshua in making the case against being a stumbling block to our brothers?

It’s after midnight here…I must call it night. Please feel free to write me again…if you think I have been any help at all. We can take up the issue of the Priesthood. Another big topic my friend…Check out Tim Hegg’s site…I consider him to be a Torah Scholar…and one who has devoted much time to understanding the writings of Paul.

Shalom, Tim

My sons and I are having some discussions about The Apostle Paul
I have studied the Word of God for years and Site Pauls Teachings over and over
For the Past several months my son has questioned teachings of Paul and has presented this to me due to what seems to be contradictions of Paul concerning the Torah, The Law etc…
Please help me understand

First
Paul says in
1st Corinthians chapt. 7 vs 19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing yet Ezekiel the Prophet says in chapter 44 vs 9 “Thus says the Lord God no stranger( which is a Gentile or a Foreigner) in Heart nor uncircumcised in Flesh shall enter into my sanctuary.”s
So how can we enter into the Temple ( later ) when Messiah is on earth if a gentile is uncircumcised in Flesh ?

also
There is no seperate Gentile salvation outside of Israel because Jesus says in John chapter 4 vs 22 ” Salvation is of the Jews”

Also
Isaiah chapter 56 vs 3
” Neither let the son of the stranger , that hath joined himself to YHWH speak saying YHWH hath utterly seperated me from his people.

So is there one set of rules for Gentiles and another for Jews ?
How can this be if We are all part of the same Covenant ?

James in Acts Chapt 15 vs 20 says ” Abstain from pollutions of idols”

but Paul says in 1st Corinthians chapt 8 vs 4 “As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrafice unto idols ,we know that an idol is nothing in the world and there is none other God but one ”

Then Paul says in 1st Corinthians chapt 10 vs 25 “whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat asking no question for conscience sake”

Then Jesus says in Rev. chapt 2 vs 14
“But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of balaam , who taught balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel , to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication”

So now
Who do we believe
James , Jesus
or Paul
How can Paul be correct if he goes against What Jesus himself taught ?

and

In Hebrews chapt. 7 vs 12
says
“For the Priesthood being changed , there is made of necessity a change also of the Torah”Yet the Prophet Jeremiah chapt 33 vs 20 through 21
says
” Thus says YHWH ; If ye can break my covenant of the day , and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the Priests , my ministers .”

In the Torah
Numbers ( or Bemidbar ) chapt. 25 Vs 12 -13
says ( KJV ) “Wherefore say , behold , I give unto him my covenant of peace : and he shall have it , and his seed after him , even the covenant of an everlasting Priesthood ; because he was zealous for his God , and made an atonement for the children of Israel.”

So is Paul correct in saying the Priesthood is past away and that the Torah is Changed ?
Or do we believe The Prophet Jeremiah quoting God saying it cannot be changed ?
Now , Does Paul Keep the Law or change it himself ?

I hope you will please answer my questions and not ignore my request I am very concerned with what Im seeing in Pauls wrtitings versus the Law given to us by God himself

Thank you

Thanks for taking the time to comment…

First of all let me repeat myself as you apparently missed it in my comments above… I am in no way affliated with the 7th day Adventists…nor shall I ever be. You are right that I do not know the teachings of Ellen G. White. I am a follower of the Messiah Yeshua…Jesus the Christ and thus I seek to imitate Him as instructed in Scripture.

Question Gary…am I wrong to imitate Him? Does not Calvary teach you to imitate Messiah? I think you and I both would agree that Jesus kept the 7th day Sabbath. How can I be estranged from my Master by seeking to be like Him?

Concerning Galatians and other writings of Paul…please read my comments above once more. Do you really believe Paul taught people to disobey God’s Commandments? Did Paul ever advocate a change in the 4th Commandment?

You said above ” And that to put oneself back under the Law will cause you to fall from grace, and be estranged from Christ.” Correct me if I am wrong but I believe what Paul actually says in Galatians 5:4 is “You have become estranged fom Christ, you who ATTEMPT TO BE JUSTIFIED by law; you have fallen from grace”. What does your bible say?

Again, as stated very clearly above…keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a matter of obedience…not a means of justification. Does honoring your mother and father put you under the law and cause you to be estranged from Christ?

Saved by grace…only by the blood of The Lamb…
Tim